PtokaX forum

Forum => News => Topic started by: ptaczek on 19 January, 2004, 18:08:13

Title: =Developing, BetaTesting and Human Stupidity=
Post by: ptaczek on 19 January, 2004, 18:08:13
After several weeks of hard_working on projects in my real job I have found some time to go through a few emails regarding PtokaX. One of you has sent me note about a website with ptokax beta-version available for download. I've also received a few other notes about the same with alpha-version of MHServer.
The most sad on this all is, that latest betas have been leaked with help of somebody from the beta-team. Moreover, just a link to the .zip archive has been provided without ANY note about the fact that it's unoptimized, unofficial beta-version with certain limitations and bugs in various features of the application - a beta version NOT intended for public use.
Nobody form those users knows anything about the need to inform me about bugs. Even if there are mostly positive reactions about the latest beta, there are still critical bugs which can consequently force the hubadmin to so switch to other version or to other hubsoft at all. With every 'heroic' action of some dumb calling himself a BetaTester, we are loosing potentional users!
Today I've removed the beta-versions download page from the internet. Starting from today Im developing a simple beta-portal secured by per-user athentication. Every downloaded betaversion will be unique equiped with digital watermark so the originator of beta leakage will be easily traced.
The negative of this all is that the developing of PtokaX is suspended UNTIL this portal will be done. There is also possibility that the whole project will be closed, because of obvious reasons. Im still very disgusted and I DO NOT believe that ppl will ever change. They are still the same from very begining of this mad Game of Life. Facing this fact one can say that I could be broad-minded and just drop a slight smile of understanding about all those kids with big ego no brain. Sure, but everyone of us has it's limits. And Im very close to the outermost of them...
The number of members of the beta-team will be probably reduced. Do not take it as a kind of penalty. As it seems some MUST are needed in order to keep this project on creative level.

Howgh.
Title:
Post by: Devastator on 19 January, 2004, 18:13:36
Well i support u in everything u do if its da steps 2 keep PtokaX alive go ahead with it straight do what u have 2 do cos i dnt want PtokaX 2 jus dissolve away.

Keep PtokaX Alive!

Devastator
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 18:14:25
well ptax shall i tell u what i think, GREAT THINKING :))
Title:
Post by: SaintSinner on 19 January, 2004, 18:23:33
im glad you are taking a more active approach to this instead of looking the other way, i agree totally with you, let those who realese betas burn.
Title:
Post by: MrZ on 19 January, 2004, 18:43:43
Damn!!!

Sorry to hear that ptaczek, pls dont think u been let down bud, keep going pleeease.

I also stand back all ur decision...

Damn Damn those squareheaded no god SOAB

Z ya (i hope)
Title:
Post by: REBEL on 19 January, 2004, 18:44:48
i think you are absolutly right ptaczek
but i think you had too many beta testers so you were bound to get a leak. unfortunately i missed being a beta tester when it started.
and i personally think you only need between 5-10 tester on a beta test , that way you have more track on it .

keep up your good work
looking forward to final results
REBEL
Title:
Post by: raz on 19 January, 2004, 18:57:08
safe, ptaczak wat u r doing is right, even though i think more beta testers equals better hub software. they make me mad cuz da software will take a bit more longer 2 comes out now!!! :(  but stepz like dese have 2 be taken.!!!

P.S. y don't u send it to 1 person who can pass it on to the rest beta testers. it can save u time and u won't have to worry as much. :D
Title:
Post by: plop on 19 January, 2004, 19:06:42
i sure love that digital watermark.
but why keep a webportal, just sending them 2 the beta testers by email sounds better 2 me.
then there is no place @ all where it can be downloaded unless 1 of the team members places it on a website himself.
email can be secured in various way's, for example they have 2 send an email back from the email addy they gave with user/pass, then the mailserver send it back 2 that email addy but only if all 3 match up.
even if a user/pass would leak out they couldn't get a beta version in there hands.

plop
Title:
Post by: Moa on 19 January, 2004, 19:17:45
i agree totally with you, let those who realese betas burn.
Title:
Post by: [T-G-T]M@sto on 19 January, 2004, 19:27:53
I can't agread more. It's sad that some people just have to spoil everything. (I'm not sure Spoil is a english workd, but i mean mess up)
Title:
Post by: Typhoon on 19 January, 2004, 19:31:26
even better the specific beta version coud be hardcoded to only work at a specific ip / MAC adress .. i think another unofficial hubsoft (wont mention names ) does the same thing !!
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 19:50:47
altho ptax, i wish you had not started this thread, because now the leakers know there is a watermark, if they did not know, we wud find out who theye were............
Title:
Post by: ptaczek on 19 January, 2004, 19:54:40
1. I don't want to use the mail for betas distribution. It's still the same work for every release. And even if the watermarking could be automated, it's still n x size_of_beta_file which must be send on my snail_line. It's better for me to have a kind of portal which will link the .exe on demand according to login data of certain tester, pack it, send it to him and delete the file so NOTHING will remain on the server as a possible target for hackers.

2. there will be no hardcoded MAC addr. checking. After few years spent in cracking for various warez groups I know, that any protection can be broken. Therefore a passive watermark with unique info + additional random redundant data spread across the whole exe image will be exactly what I need.
Title:
Post by: [NL]Pur on 19 January, 2004, 19:56:10
i agree, :)

as earlier suggested maby it's also better too test it with only medium(800+) and large hubs(1500+) since it's not easy too find the bugs with a small hub.

anyway sad too hear that things must go this way with auth. stuff.

hopefully you still see time for futher developed of ptokax.
Title:
Post by: ptaczek on 19 January, 2004, 19:58:43
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
altho ptax, i wish you had not started this thread, because now the leakers know there is a watermark, if they did not know, we wud find out who theye were............

It's not my goal to waste my time by searching for the leaker. What it would be good for now? What I would do with him? Shoot him? Send him a bomb? You know, stupid will remain stupid and moreover he will never find out about his stupidity...
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 20:01:45
QuoteOriginally posted by ptaczek
1. I don't want to use the mail for betas distribution. It's still the same work for every release. And even if the watermarking could be automated, it's still n x size_of_beta_file which must be send on my snail_line. It's better for me to have a kind of portal which will link the .exe on demand according to login data of certain tester, pack it, send it to him and delete the file so NOTHING will remain on the server as a possible target for hackers.

2. there will be no hardcoded MAC addr. checking. After few years spent in cracking for various warez groups I know, that any protection can be broken. Therefore a passive watermark with unique info + additional random redundant data spread across the whole exe image will be exactly what I need.

what gets me is all these prats that spread it dont realise but they are slowig the ptokax development down, causing more SH*TE pardon, but its true, they slow the development, if they lay back and w8 instead of being a bunch of inpatient twa*s.

well hope to see some nice work on px, and just to pis* them off, i receommend u take a bit more time tourself.....lol j/k i cant w8 til actually release, but take it easy, dont rush, or bugs will appear all over ;)
Title:
Post by: yepyepyep4711 on 19 January, 2004, 20:02:32
so each and every .exe will have a different watermark?

sounds good.

As always. If you need it, I have both a http and ftp server.

Cheers
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 20:03:15
QuoteOriginally posted by ptaczek
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
altho ptax, i wish you had not started this thread, because now the leakers know there is a watermark, if they did not know, we wud find out who theye were............

It's not my goal to waste my time by searching for the leaker. What it would be good for now? What I would do with him? Shoot him? Send him a bomb? You know, stupid will remain stupid and moreover he will never find out about his stupidity...

but by targetting the leakers, you can elimate the possibilites of it being spread, by not giving that user access to beta....and if u get there address, ill shoot em or send the bomb :p
Title:
Post by: plop on 19 January, 2004, 20:17:32
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
QuoteOriginally posted by ptaczek
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
altho ptax, i wish you had not started this thread, because now the leakers know there is a watermark, if they did not know, we wud find out who theye were............

It's not my goal to waste my time by searching for the leaker. What it would be good for now? What I would do with him? Shoot him? Send him a bomb? You know, stupid will remain stupid and moreover he will never find out about his stupidity...

but by targetting the leakers, you can elimate the possibilites of it being spread, by not giving that user access to beta....and if u get there address, ill shoot em or send the bomb :p
the log files can show where the leaked beta came from.

your right pcaz, now i know how you wanne make that portal i definatly agree on that.

phatty if there stupid enought 2 spread it while they know it's not allowed they whill be stupid enough 2 do the same while they know about the watermark.

plop
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 20:21:05
Quotephatty if there stupid enought 2 spread it while they know it's not allowed they whill be stupid enough 2 do the same while they know about the watermark.

plop

i really hope ur right, i want to know who the traitor is, it cud be someone we help, it good be one of our friends, no one knows yet, and it really annoys me that ptax uses his time, to work on it for the community, i love being here as u can tell, im not even supposed to be here but i am, i love scripting lua, and i cant understadn these ppl, i hope i find out who it is, i want to know if they are around us, in this forum maybe reading these posts or what......
Title:
Post by: Optimus on 19 January, 2004, 20:25:21
mmm, I want my Ptokax... This is going to no where that's really sad.

We haven't seen a thing in ages, why has this to be so
difficult??

Think most users will drop now when they read this messages.

Tobe or Not tobe, that's the real question. (You go forward or backward)

What's it gone be!!!
Title:
Post by: NightLitch on 19 January, 2004, 20:33:19
This is sad indeed. And I Am behind you as the others are to Ptaczek.
Title: mhhh
Post by: Dax on 19 January, 2004, 21:27:35
Ptacez aren't you too paranoic?????
I thik that is not possibile...........
Control with control, log, ip check....
O MY GOD......
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 19 January, 2004, 21:31:36
QuoteOriginally posted by Dax
Ptacez aren't you too paranoic?????
I thik that is not possibile...........
Control with control, log, ip check....
O MY GOD......

errm yes it is :p

i think its a grea idea
Title:
Post by: SaintSinner on 19 January, 2004, 21:38:19
QuoteOriginally posted by Dax
Ptacez aren't you too paranoic?????
I thik that is not possibile...........
Control with control, log, ip check....
O MY GOD......

its his work,
he can protect his work anyway he wants.
Title: mha
Post by: Dax on 19 January, 2004, 21:39:44
Ptacez resize your world!!!
Don't pretend you be god.....
Everyone can be wrong: we're human but this doesn't justify your anger against everyone!!!
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Post by: SaintSinner on 19 January, 2004, 21:51:35
QuoteOriginally posted by Dax
Ptacez resize your world!!!
Don't pretend you be god.....
Everyone can be wrong: we're human but this doesn't justify your anger against everyone!!!


goodness "pretending to be god?"
sounds like someone is really bitter at this idea.
he is prob taking advise from most ppl here,
its has been mentioned time and time again
that releasing betas to users that arent ready
for the concequenses, of running a beta hub
 will only discourage other
users from using it, thus the community will wither
away.

whats the big deal anyway,..are you a beta tester
if yes...no change to you
if no ...then whats the big deal
the only ppl affected will be beta testers.
JEEEZZZ

Title:
Post by: NightLitch on 19 January, 2004, 22:04:55
This thread should never have started... this is ONE big
thing to cause unhappiness here. Why can't there be a
"own" thread section for only Beta's. So this kind of discussions are not held. I don't like this at all.

And if Ptaczek want to secure his creation let him do that.

Don't we all want a final working version! Instead of stealing the beta's or get them from other users.

Gezzz... plz. Close thread this is going to be a real breakdown
if it continues.
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Post by: plop on 19 January, 2004, 22:31:32
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
i really hope ur right, i want to know who the traitor is, it cud be someone we help, it good be one of our friends, no one knows yet, and it really annoys me that ptax uses his time, to work on it for the community, i love being here as u can tell, im not even supposed to be here but i am, i love scripting lua, and i cant understadn these ppl, i hope i find out who it is, i want to know if they are around us, in this forum maybe reading these posts or what......
there are 2 things endless, the universe and human stupidety.
and i'm not 2 sure about the universe.
einstein rules.


dax: getting the beta out in the open only harms ptokax reputation.
ppl will start talking that the new beta is unstable/buggy, which is logical for us as we know that it's a beta.
but the ppl getting it the wrong way might not know that and start complaining or even telling there mates how bad it is (which it isn't btw).
this can cause ppl 2 run away and not even trying 0.3.3.0 the day it's gone be released.
he's not angry @ everybody, just the 1 which is abusing his trust.

plop
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Post by: bolamix on 19 January, 2004, 22:42:27
Just my 2-bit... First, no thanks to the who released the betas.... stupidity is endless. :rolleyes: (edit: that was written before plop's post, so i'm paraphrazing einstein without knowing... great :D)
@Ptaczek: I support your decision, as obviously it's the only way this project is ever gonna get through. I'm saddened because when you start something that big on your free time you practically do it for others (even when you enjoy coding and bug-tracking), and then one of those "others" just ruins it for thousands of people... that's ugly, but they obviously don't care.
You don't deserve this kinda shit heaped upon you man, take it as easy as you can, we'll just have to be patient. That shouldn't be so hard if most people weren't used to "I want it all and i want it NOW".

@SaintSinner: the people affected by this will not be only beta testers, but also all the hubowners who are awaiting the new release, all their users who are affected by the remaining bugs... all of them will have to wait longer, which counts as "being affected", although in a minor way... ;)

@NightLitch: i disagree, i think it's good that people realize that someone is putting so much work into it, i don't like the idea of keeping such knowledge from the average user. My own 2-bit, as i said, even if it's 2 long bits :P
Title: Sad but true
Post by: Snoris on 19 January, 2004, 22:47:53
Well...I think its time for ptacek to resize just as he says....the beta-team maybe was a little to big...
I?ll stand behind you in wich dessision you?ll ever make ptacek...I know I?m inocent..and probablly more of us...But something gotta be done...this stupidety can?t go on longer....I know where I stand on this issue..And I?m pleased to say that I can offer my beta place just for the future couse of ptokax...Now who?s with me??? :]
Title:
Post by: Devastator on 19 January, 2004, 23:02:26
After readin manee posts on this topic i jus wanna say.....well i aint no beta tester and i have seen manee hub softwares in action.......and i can honestly say that i havent seen n e that can touch PtokaX......i find PtokaX betta as it can be tweaked to how i want it and i cnt see no hub software that is able 2 match what PtokaX can do.

when theres problems with PtokaX like errors ppl can have them solved easily in this forum. If ppl need a script 2 match what they want the scripters make it just to match ones needs and also Direct Conenct software like oDC, DC++ etc can be a general topic this forum.

Firstly i dnt see no hub software at all matchin what i have mentioned above abt PtokaX.

Secondly i dnt see no forum matchin one like this and if there is one i cnt find it and quite frankly i'm happy i havent found it!

Thirdly i dnt see no other people on other Hub Software projects workin as hard as the people workin on PtokaX and i dnt think they as friendly.

I may have strayed off the point a little but, basically what i am saying is i'm a n00b and PtokaX is and will always b the hub software 4 me....

also rumour goes other softwares r dodgy....

so i recommend stick 2 PtokaX

and i will recommend it 2 manee other no doubt.

PtokaX is da hub software and will always be da best hub software around as its easy 2 use, help can be found easily and with pleasure and its all worthwhile!

Keep ur faith in PtokaX cos no matter what i am gonna use it and recommend it 2 others!

Devastator
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Post by: c h i l l a on 19 January, 2004, 23:04:21
what ever is best for the projekt.
And I would like to see a realese out more sooner than later :).
If i had to switch back to Ptokax TD 4, I'd be quite desperate.
Title:
Post by: yepyepyep4711 on 19 January, 2004, 23:44:57
oh, well. Now's the time I wish I knew programming.

But I do support the Idea of a separate section in the forum for the Beta-Testers.

Cheers
Title:
Post by: Joha on 20 January, 2004, 00:08:00
i fully agree with ptaczek i allso think this should have been a 1 post (Ptaczek) to inform all on it, and then close the thread

keep up the great work :)
Title: sorry!
Post by: angelsanges on 20 January, 2004, 00:30:29
sorry for my latency...but I'm busy with university.
I'm supporting the ptokax project from beginning and now unfortunately I lost my link to the beta download page....Uffff!
anyway i love ptokax and i love to support and use it every day!
I hate this kind of people!
Pta you're all with you and with ptokax!

PTOKAX RULEZ!

PS: sorry for my english
Title:
Post by: Dyzan on 20 January, 2004, 03:32:47
To bad that people destroys our beta testing by spreed unfinished work..  :(

Well Ptaczek, let me and NightLitch know when your more secure site is avaible. You have our e-mail.

We need to beta test more to get this good hubsoft avaible for users.

By the way. I like Ptokax 0.3.3.0 b15.25 very stabel.  topped 701 users with no lag. Thats good! And thanks NightLitch! Our Bot for 0.3.3.0 versions will be great!

Keep up the good work!
Title:
Post by: NotRabidWombat on 20 January, 2004, 07:43:33
Well, I think you're going about this the wrong way.

First off, what makes your beta testers more *elite* than other users. It seems to me that most people just said yes. Dedication is the only qualification of a beta tester. Why should we remove other dedicated users from the communitty?

Second, you'll only find more persistant (and frustrating) users as you take further steps to protect the beta version from being leaked.

As far as I can tell, most users have their own favorite version of PtokaX taking into account their desire for stability versus features. If users are frustrated with a new beta version of PtokaX, they'll probably go back to whatever they were using before. Most people have the very basic understanding that beta means the software can be buggy.

So my suggested approach is release very blantantly beta versions. You won't have to bother with the water mark or the portal or users who would like to help with debugging being left out of the loop (like myself). Users can choose to download the stable version or exist on the bleeding edge of technology.

But, it's your show. As far as I know, you are the only developer. I'll respect whatever you choose.

-NotRabidWombat
Title: ok
Post by: Dax on 20 January, 2004, 22:01:37
Ok but that just not possibile, so from today i'm running an other software(NOTE!!!! I HAVEN'T SPAM!!!!!!!)

Bye
Dax
Title:
Post by: ????L?F?? on 20 January, 2004, 23:07:23
ptaczek if you need any help at all weather it be programming/beta testing or even shit to do with the ptokax web site (kinda good at making sites ^^)

just pm me alright mate ;-)

i'll be glad to help out in any way or form possible
Title:
Post by: gizmo on 21 January, 2004, 15:31:23
15.25 is very stabile

we had 2300 users without lagg and the cpu was 34 % nice =)
Title: beta
Post by: Flux on 21 January, 2004, 15:37:56
I wish i could be a beta tester but really i don't want to, cause i am not a programmer but i could test it no problem but my members would be angry at me if i had any probs hehehe.

Anyway a good friend of mine is a beta tester for Ptokax and he assures me that if the new PtokaX will ever be released it will be awsome.

So i hope things will look up and prosper for Ptokax.


My mate also says theres a few probs too with the Ptokax 3.3.0 build 15.25. so i hope u lot will be on top of it. I do get fustrated as i want to be a beta tester cause my friend will not let any other info out. bastard hehehe.
Title:
Post by: ????L?F?? on 21 January, 2004, 15:44:02
QuoteOriginally posted by gizmo
15.25 is very stabile

we had 2300 users without lagg and the cpu was 34 % nice =)

thats all well and good but, whats the system specs and internet connection speed up/down

cant say its good and say you get what ever % cpu useage

every pc is different so other people may not get the same effect of proformance
Title:
Post by: gizmo on 21 January, 2004, 15:52:36
its a 2 ghz cpu 512 mb ram and 10mbit up and down

=)
Title:
Post by: ????L?F?? on 21 January, 2004, 16:13:25
well thats pretty good, 2ghz cpu doesnt explain much tho, amd or intel?

downstars:
AMD 2600+ XP "Barton"
512 DDR 333mhz

upstairs:
AMD 2400+ XP "Throughbred"
256 DDR 266mhz

Net = 576/288
Title:
Post by: gizmo on 21 January, 2004, 16:34:16
Its a an Amd cpu =)
Title:
Post by: ????L?F?? on 21 January, 2004, 17:53:55
well thats good then ^^

high hopes for ptokax now
Title:
Post by: plop on 21 January, 2004, 19:16:51
QuoteOriginally posted by Flux
I wish i could be a beta tester but really i don't want to, cause i am not a programmer but i could test it no problem but my members would be angry at me if i had any probs hehehe.

Anyway a good friend of mine is a beta tester for Ptokax and he assures me that if the new PtokaX will ever be released it will be awsome.

So i hope things will look up and prosper for Ptokax.


My mate also says theres a few probs too with the Ptokax 3.3.0 build 15.25. so i hope u lot will be on top of it. I do get fustrated as i want to be a beta tester cause my friend will not let any other info out. bastard hehehe.
yep beta testing isn't always fun.
i'm really happy that odin helps me on beta testing my bot's even if it can cause lots and lots of complains.


1 extra side note 2 explain a bit what soulfire allready states.
the amount of MHz doesn't say anything about how fast a cpu actualy is.
if you want 2 see a nice example about this i advise you 2 look here (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/hpc/altivec.shtml).
it's an comparison between an powerPC G4 and a Pentium 4.
check the Flops/cycle and you'll see that an PPC on half the speed can be 2x as fast as a P4.
Flops/cycle is the number of floating point (math calculations with numbers behind the . example 0.3432 x 2.343) per clock pulse.
all this is a bit O.T. but i found it in place 2 explain it a bit as many ppl make mistakes in this.

plop
Title: hmm interesting
Post by: kbeh273300 on 22 January, 2004, 04:16:01
as far as i know im a beta tester i got an email from you for the beta but i have never sent any emails about bugs as for now i havent found any.

as to all this leakedge its most desturbing . but im sure you will handle it in the best way you can

i have replided to this becouse it seemed like its time for me to get my 2 cents in.i have tested it with many diferant scripts and they all seem to work just fine,no bugs made by the hubsoft.

i also wanted to replie to the one user that posted about haveing only big hubs test it. well i would hate to see that kind of descimanation but i guess you will do what your gona do no mater what anyone says.

lastly i just want to say thanks for letting me be a beta tester and i hope i can continue to be a beta tester.

H??? ? K??g? hub owner and proud member of the Dream~Masters Network

kbeh273300@hotmail.com
Title:
Post by: pHaTTy on 22 January, 2004, 04:25:31
QuoteOriginally posted by kbeh273300

i also wanted to replie to the one user that posted about haveing only big hubs test it. well i would hate to see that kind of descimanation but i guess you will do what your gona do no mater what anyone says.

kbeh273300@hotmail.com

i also disagree with only large hubs, i used to run hub with about 500+, and i got sick, so i limited to about 100 now, and im happy :), but i still like to try and find new bugs, and every little bit of help is better, the smaller hubs will find bugs that big hubs wont find, and big hubs will find what small hubs cant ;)

just my opinion ;)

PhaTz,,
Title:
Post by: plop on 22 January, 2004, 11:09:04
QuoteOriginally posted by (uk-kingdom)pH?tt?
QuoteOriginally posted by kbeh273300

i also wanted to replie to the one user that posted about haveing only big hubs test it. well i would hate to see that kind of descimanation but i guess you will do what your gona do no mater what anyone says.

kbeh273300@hotmail.com

i also disagree with only large hubs, i used to run hub with about 500+, and i got sick, so i limited to about 100 now, and im happy :), but i still like to try and find new bugs, and every little bit of help is better, the smaller hubs will find bugs that big hubs wont find, and big hubs will find what small hubs cant ;)

just my opinion ;)

PhaTz,,
that makes me think of i found out how and what went wrong with the MyInfoString.
that would either be imposible 2 found out if i had 800+ users or a real pain in the ass. lol
the chat would have been spammed with debug lines. lol
somethings are imposible 2 find out on small hub's like memory handling but other things can't be found out by big hub's.

plop
Title:
Post by: CraiDt on 22 January, 2004, 18:45:09
Ah, I have been doing exams so rather late reply :(

This really sucks =_= I waited for an answer for a few weeks because you were obviously bussy while we could  find the betas floating around the Internet. Because we respected you and you work.
I shit on you leaking bastards =_=
 
Please don't be demotivated by all this crap, we eagerly anticipate our favorite hubsoftwares development ^^
The vast majority respects your work and all the effort you put into it, please don't think we are all like that...

And I know for certain there are enough people around who wouldn't mind "talking" to any people leaking Betas ;)
Title: publib beta list instead of secrecy
Post by: ??Empie?? on 22 January, 2004, 19:06:44
Wouldnt it be far more easier to make the list of beta-testers public, and let every hub using 0.3.3.0 have something like: "official beta-tester #031" in the motd.

Then it's easy to see who's using the hub who isnt an official beta tester.

This making a watermark stuff, it sounds cool but I think its a bit over the top and a lot of unnessecairy work.

If you let people "talk" to the not nice people who are using the hub "illegal" then you can see how many people relly like and support ptokax. --> look at the positive side of the people.


I waited for beta-tester-status with Testdrive4  running  a (1000+ user) hub that could barely be up for 24h. Now I got official beta tester status and the hub runs so smooth I dont even dare to dream what the official release will be like.

For that I have bled, but
Title: My Two cents ...
Post by: [ANCIENT]Klismo on 25 January, 2004, 13:59:52
.. well i have been with ptokax for a very long time, and supported it into the extreme. Yes i had 2400+ hours of upptimes, but with an old version. As the newer versions came, so came the bugs with it, and most of all the prestige war. Who is best, who is better. In the end ptokax became a relativelly closed group. Only a few handfull people ("beta-testers"+asskissers)  having the "priviledge" to test newer, more stable version. We the rest we got stuck with version released for ages ago. Some nice persons/scripters/developers got probablly tired of this internal fights or prestige war or whatever, and finding one or another excuse dissapeared. Then suddenly the Yhub surfaces, and recently i read on there are more hubs and users/hub on Yhub, then on Ptokax. And nobody reacts?  You all just kiss upp and state that Ptokax is so much better so much more stable.... why the hell you think Yhub won so many over? ANY of you even bothered looking at it from a HUBOWNERs point of view? Nah... you just pat eachother on the back, living in the old days glory while other software (even if inferior) takes away the procentage. Ptaczek, you know me, and you know i respect you, but: GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES and start fixing Ptokax. Fuck all those lameass protections here, protections there...why you think people leech out betas? Couse the hub owners crave development, bugfixes, and why people download faulty unmarked betas, couse they are hungry, hungry for new version, fighting desperatly to get their hand over a stable Ptokaz, so they won't be forced to change to Yhub.

Stop this nonsens portal and watermark and all those bullshit. Give us bugfixes, optimizations, UPDATES, give us SOMETHING, not just lame excuses.

I've been silent for a long time, and now i poured my heart out. If you want to delete me go ahead and do it, at least i got the chance to say what probally many others feel, but aren't around here anymore to write it.
Title:
Post by: [NL]Pur on 25 January, 2004, 14:23:11
isn't this the simular thought of before TD3 and TD4 came along.

 :O

the stability has improved but beta's are still beta's.
release stuff like TD3 and TD4 that where technically
testdrives / beta's released too the public. Many ppl forgot that i think.

icecube is still the most stable public version. Releasing
versions that aren't tested enough causes ppl too be angry. I still think ptaczek is doing the best holding it a bit longer beta.

I share btw you opinion about the watermark stuff is sad that it come that far and maby too much, overkill.

i whould rarther see ptaczek giving his time too bugfixing.

/Pur
Title:
Post by: Flux on 25 January, 2004, 15:01:45
That put a jolt in the system. Just what we needed to really think about what we can do and the ideas.

My question to the testers and ptaczek himself. Is the latest better version stable enough and the bugs which are still ramianing are they really bad or just minor. because if that is a no or not really, then suggesting just to release as a testdrive 5 then but still continue to do what u do best even with the testers.

If it is ok and stable enough then why not let us have the latest beta version for now as the next test drive.

At least this way we know we have still got something to hold on to still. I am sure we will all know if it was released we know cause it's another testdrive...  ;)
Title:
Post by: Roy on 28 January, 2004, 13:42:11
Make a paypal account like arnetheduck and Opera, i have donated them some "6 pack" money and will also do it for Ptokax and for the ones making great scripts i would use, like RoboCop etc if they had a paypal account.

And for the ones of us not making script or hubsoftware, let's show these guys we really respect the work they do and send them some inspiration donating them some 6 pack cash now and then  ;)  they wont get rich by using a paypal account, but it might inspire them a bit since they do use their spare time for this developments.

Yes it's controversial but hell, i even would pay for a finished ptokax  (even more controversial) hahahaha



Roy
Title:
Post by: kepp on 28 January, 2004, 15:30:50
QuoteOriginally posted by [ANCIENT]Klismo
ANY of you even bothered looking at it from a HUBOWNERs point of view?

Yea and nothing wrong with y-hub.
However..

I was browsing the Y-Hub forum the other day and saw a whole lotta people asking "Where can i get a script for Y-Hub?".

And such questions..
With Y-Hub they are stuck to its inbuilt commands, While with PtokaX, You can customize your hub for your needs.

That's what people want...
Title:
Post by: ??????Hawk?????? on 30 January, 2004, 04:47:10
Just to add my thaughts........


Why not release betas to the public for testing ?

take a look  at the  robocop thread an see the ammount of help  and respect Optimus get for his work.

ive  been  in and out of this thread for days now  and still no wiser as to wether the ptokax project is dead or not...


Ptokax is not the only dc hub  program out and anyone following sdch will know that the current releases of Ptokax  come  NO WHERE NEAR in comparison.

i would hate to see this great  hub software  loose out  to YET  another hub soft  as it did to y_hub.


i think it  about time   we knew what was happening it is  TOTALLY UNFAIR on   ppl  like Optimus that are working on scripts for future release of ptokax.
are these ppl   Wasting their time or not.???????
Title:
Post by: plop on 30 January, 2004, 05:58:10
QuoteOriginally posted by ??????Hawk??????
Ptokax is not the only dc hub  program out and anyone following sdch will know that the current releases of Ptokax  come  NO WHERE NEAR in comparison.

i would hate to see this great  hub software  loose out  to YET  another hub soft  as it did to y_hub.
visual basic scripting???
sorry but i can't see the danger in a hub using that (walking from here 2 rome) compaired 2 a hub using lua (flying the blackbird).
the sql part is cool doh.
ptax sql plsssssssssssssssssssss. lol
but gotta reboot before i can try sdch for real, and that whill only happen in a couple day's.
the real danger comes from verlihub, that has been ported 2 windows and he is wondering what kind of scripting 2 add 2 it.
and don't forget that dch++ and dc++ are being developed in the same way as ptokax, also a small group of ppl running the beta's.

finaly no, ppl like optimus aren't wasting there time, and no it isn't unfair optimus knows it and excepts it.
ptax is working on some big updates which you as user can't even see, optimizing takes more time then just adding something.
beside that he wants 2 add a whole new database.
and no the beta's aren't better yet then testdrive, yes they use less memory but there are some bugs which aren't fun for users.
now if you would get disconnected from entering a hub wouldn't you like 2 know why ??, just 2 name 1 of the bugs.
ppl also forgot that testdrive is a beta, the same whill happen on 0.3.3.0 if he does that.
but in all it's up to ptax 2 decide what he's gone do, nomather what that is i respect that as it's his work.

i'm gone shut my mouth now, i need sleep.

plop
Title:
Post by: ionel on 06 January, 2005, 04:05:44
i saw here some realy weird if not childish point of views

so.. i'll express my opinion
i run a intranet hub... ok. 100-150 users. ok that is low but whatever.
i script myself all the things i need on the hub.
so what do i do? i look for updates.. (yes i'm a update freak, i always keep up-to-date)
so here starts my insane hunt for newer ptokax. and i get to this stupid nonsenses like "we wont release any beatas because they have bugs and this annoys the users" .. what's the point then ?
you are losing your hub software users (AND YES I WOULD TURN TO ANY SOFTWARE THAT HAS LUA SCRIPTING AND RUNS ON WINDOWS AND I WOULD EVEN WRITE MY OWN HUB SOFTWARE JUST TO GET THE SHIT I NEED ON THE HUB - that shit would be speed and features)
so for who are you actualy developing this hub ? some god damn beta testers ? at least for me that isn't fair
Title:
Post by: imby on 06 January, 2005, 05:35:20
Well we can all whine but ultimately we are going 'round in circles. I'd like to hear an update from the man himself, but of course that always goes unanswered to. Best to have some patience, what I have already is very good.

[04:31:17] Uptime: 19 days, 8 hours, 39 minutes
cheers.
Title:
Post by: NightLitch on 07 January, 2005, 12:52:23
QuoteOriginally posted by imby

[04:31:17] Uptime: 19 days, 8 hours, 39 minutes
cheers.

I beat you :D

[12:51:43] <-=THoR=-> Hub uptime:  21 days 13 hours 28 minutes 14 seconds

Uptime: 21 days, 13 hours, 29 minutes



//NL
Title:
Post by: Tw?sT?d-d?v on 07 January, 2005, 21:47:49
Hi, just a quick question to all the testers,Any chance of an update into how things are looking?
Is the testing coming along ok?
Title:
Post by: [NL]Pur on 08 January, 2005, 00:20:21
this is unknown
Title:
Post by: Skrollster on 09 January, 2005, 19:13:39
The test is looking good if you check the preformance.. BUT there is some bugs in the banlisthandling so it needs to be rewritten from scratch if I have understood everything correctly...

i have now tested ynhub and compared it to the latest build of ptokax (all on the same computer) and i would say ptokax beats yhub in preformace but doesn't reach as far as ynhub, but mind you I'm running plops a.i on that hub and it is so much cleaner then my ynhub is...

i had 2700 users in my hub at the most before i started to test ynhub...

so the test is looking real good but there is some things that realy needs to be fixed before a public release... (and ptaczek needs to come along and aprove a release)
Title:
Post by: Tarot on 09 January, 2005, 19:51:47
that is great news Skrollster i hoop that the release is comming soon
Title:
Post by: bastya_elvtars on 09 January, 2005, 19:54:15
Well, good news skroll... :)

When I ran Yhub (yes, no n) it was very-very buggy. I convinced Nidaros to use PtokaX and it beated YHub as it had a lower CPU and RAM usage then YHub (using LawMaker).

What shifts the scale to the side pf px: scripting (and C++). Try measuring the time between a request completion for YHub and for PtokaX.  :D
Title:
Post by: plop on 10 January, 2005, 00:18:55
a.i. can still be optimized a bit more, i'm not using all ptokax new features yet.
sadly i'm lacking the time 2 do so, got a line of compies 2 fix and a private life 2.
but compairing a hub like ptokax with a hub in a box is something hard.
like compairing a ford you can get in black or black or black....etc.
with a unlimited line of models/manufactorers with tune-up sets, spoilers, lights and bells and loads of other things.

plop
Title:
Post by: plop on 10 January, 2005, 00:21:54
QuoteOriginally posted by bastya_elvtars What shifts the scale to the side pf px: scripting (and C++). Try measuring the time between a request completion for YHub and for PtokaX.  :D
on a.i. the results are boring.
0 0 0 0 0 0
lol

plop
Title:
Post by: Progressive_Rocker_1960 on 20 January, 2005, 17:40:45
I understand your frustration ptaczek. But, PLEASE Don't kill a great piece of software because of some ignorant, inconsiderate fool.

Remember there are a lot of us out here that respect your work and rely on its continued improvements. and look forward to the next incarnation of the Hubsoft.

Keep up the good work friend and don't get to discouraged, there are more out here that appreciate what you are trying to do than you might imagine.
Title:
Post by: ptaczek on 21 February, 2005, 08:56:19
Hello :) Maybe you want to know that http://board.univ-angers.fr//thread.php?threadid=61&boardid=1&page=35
Title:
Post by: vick on 21 February, 2005, 23:25:20
SOUNDS FAMILIAR @ POST #1
Title:
Post by: ptaczek on 25 February, 2005, 18:17:40
Im closing this thread ;)