FBI started to work :(

[IN-Flux]

1. - http://www.staticusers.net/flt/index.html
2. - http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2004/April/04_crm_263.htm

They will never find us

[[G-T-E]Gate?]

BSA Applauds Dept. of Justice Action in Operation Fastlink
Business Software Alliance (BSA) in conjunction with FBI and other countries hits
Sweden Stockholm on Thursday 24 April 2004. Swedish Local paper  A translation to English will be added to this thread once Iam done.

Becarefull Out There !!!

[NotRabidWombat]

LOL.

I like how everyone cries "Big Brother", fighting the man and all that bologna.

If you share copyrighted material you ARE breaking the law. There will be consequences for those actions. Quit treating this like some blown out of proportion battle for our rights.

-NotRabidWombat

[[NL]Pur]

almost nobody likes that law so why is it still there ?

[kbeh273300]

if i buy a candy bar i can share it if i want,if i buy a car i can share it if i want,why is software any diferant?

[Cyberia]

yups agree with you kbeh273300
If i bought it, and i give it to others. It's my money i give away i think  ?(

[[NL]trucker]

why do you all think it is so expensive to buy software?

it is just like with electical equipment the more they sell the cheaper it gets.

but with those warez scenes around it will neve get any cheaper.

those guys who makes the software need to be paid also.

keep in mind i,m using illegal stuff to just because it is to expensive for me to buy it legaly but that doesnt mean i approve it [how about contradictionary]

if we all bought the stuff instead of "stealing"it from the authors the price would drop i,m sure of that but aslong as the normal person in the streets cant afford to buy it that will not happen and that means that the bsa and the fbi has work plenty to hunt those warez and p2p proggies.

try to estimate for howmuch value you have on your computer in illegal software did you ever thought about that?

and then try to estimate how much taxxes your goverment is missing because you havend bought it but just "stole" it from the devolper.

you like to get paid also for whatever work you are doing right??

then you know why these guys are coming on so strongly.

and indeed as we all know it is illegal so dont come crying if they get you.

and cyberia and kbeh

If i bought it, and i give it to others. It's my money i give away i think

this is a bit shortsided dont yo think?

that are things you would have to buy over and over again so the taxes will be paid over it.
that is why they dont object to it.


software and music are things you can keep using so if you share a candybar with howmany peoplle you could share it??  3 or 4 ?
if you share a car with howmany would you share it???

software and music an movies is be shared amongst millions i think that is a big diffrence.

keep in mind as i said before i use it also cause i cannot afford to pay for it but... i,m not gonna cry if they caught me i know i,m wrong and have to accept the consequenses for it when they catch me.

[VidFamne]

Have you ever wonder why library exist?
Dont think the authors cry, becuase you dont pay for the books you loan.
The film- and musicindustri greed for more money is only getting bigger, and now they got FBI on there side.
It's a shame.

[kp]

defently agree VidFamme, I have never seen one of those guys in the film industrie suffer because of shareing some movies,
plus [nl]trucker, if i take your exsample of getting cheaper software when we all buy it, I think of winXP, you sorta gotta buy it, but it ain't that cheap compared to the copies sold,
so its true all they want is more money they can't spend while beeing alive.

I also found some nice tunes on dc, whicth i liked so much that i baught them afterwards, but i wouldn't have if i hadn't found them on the net to listen into them.

And it is proven there aren't less music CD's sold than before.
But I am positive, these old guys won't rule this world for ever we will take over sooner or later. we'll change the law and then hunt those who hunted us.

[Skrollster]

Originally posted by VidFamne
Have you ever wonder why library exist?
Dont think the authors cry, becuase you dont pay for the books you loan.
The film- and musicindustri greed for more money is only getting bigger, and now they got FBI on there side.
It's a shame.

Did you know that the authors do get payed every time you read a book that you have lent in your local library?

I'm at NotRabidWombat and Trucker's  side..

I can understand that the regular user can't pay 1000? for photoshop but 10? for software as tv-tool isn't much, start paying the fee and the larger companies will see that ppl is willing to pay what the sofware is worth...

[pHaTTy]

im on neither here, but interesting subject, hmmm

lets look at the software authors side first:

they could sell 1 game they spent 2 year making for ?30.99, now if it werent illegal to share, they would probably go copy, share n give to everyone he knows...then it would spread, so people would go downloading and spreading, they would lose out on alot of cash......maybe the odd person buying original, but that aint the point....so now the company goes bankrupt, they stop making software n games.......eventually most companies would go the same...lets remember, the time and effort they spend  putting into games n software........and also remember they buy software from other software companies, they need designing tools, compilers etc etc...so they buy the best they can buy......so the consiquences would be open source, would become like linux, less games, less software, hard to use software that you have to compile to use........software would only be made if they were bored or had a bit free time, because they would work to attend.....ok so now the underworld...

people often share because they cant afford the target price set on software n games, would like to try them whilethey wait for the price to drop, altho some people share for fun, even some people share just to show off and say look at size of my share compared to yours......i think when you buy a car, the car is yours, the author give you right, to sell it on, ie vauxhall for example, opel give you the right to sell it on, and share......a choc bar is survival, its food, a resource...this is way off the subject i think.......and now software...software was written by authors, that dont want it to be share, now look at their rights, you cant share what you never wrote unless you have their permission.........a car is build fast with machinery, software is built slowly using their brain...a car is designed slow, but only once per car...and it dont take 2 years +, it also dont take a team of 100+ to design a car.........

another reason for software not being share is like before, would put alot of businesses out of well business lol....and no, it has not been proved that the same amount of CD's would be sold...the only way that coul;d be proved is if everyone stops sharing n downloading games n software......then maybe you would find companies drop price for music games n software.......think of it like ptokax, what if everyone started sharing the source code without ptaczek's authorisation.........he dont want it....and its wrong...now taxes well taxes in UK are way to high anyways...so i'll keep off that subject lol.....

ok why does everyone want to share illagally, when software companies make software that is legal to share

shareware, freeware........try wolfenstein ET, pretty good game and its free to download and share, full online game.........burning board that this forumis run on, is free software...the newer versions aint, yet, but will eventually, they need their income, so give them their credit and you will see you get more in return....respect the authors......share linux...if you cant afford photoshop then, wait, be patient save up, buy it.....by the time you have the cash, i'm sure it will have dropped in price...eventually things like that wont, be so much, with 1 exception of microsoft.......so now you have both ways, i have nothin else to say, there is nothin else to say lol......

later,,

[VidFamne]

Did you know that the authors do get payed every time you read a book that you have lent in your local library?

Yes, I did knew that. :)
But that fee they get is so small, it's not in proportion of the price of the book. And they get it from the taxpayer.

The most pirated soft in the world, is made by the most wealthy soft-company in the world.(M.S.)
So I dont think they've been hurt too much. :)

Knowledge, education and entertainment is not only for the rich guys, is my sense of justice here.

[kp]

also interesting, but if i find that research site again i'll post it,
cause its true there aren't less or more cd's sold than before napster started.

[yepyepyep4711]

"every immoral law must be disobeyed"
 -- that's a quote from the Nurnberg Trials (for those who slept in history class, that are the trials of the NS leaders after WWII)

now although the comparison might seem harsh, I definitely think the might of the media/software industry (only talking about the big players here, not the small ones) has grown immoral. I'll explain: the law of the market is suppose to regulate prices, so the price should drop if people want it to for a cheaper price and it can profitably be sold at that price. But what do we see? I've just watched a DVD yesterday. Bought it for 8?. The DVD itself is made by a big TV company that wouldn't do it if it where not profitable. And next to that you can see CDs that cost 25?? There is way more investment/people in a movie than in a CD, a movie will sell in the theatres as well as a song sells on the radio and TV, so why should a CD be so expensive?
That's the first reason why I consider the power of this industry immoral: ripp off.
The second, and the one that really count, is that they can make you. They can make you need their products on the one side, and put you in jail on the other side if you don't buy them. Before anyone starts answering "you can always don't use their products", please take the masses in consideration here, not one individual. They have enough marketing power to make your little sister "need" the newest Britney tune for her next birthday party, and don't even get me started on M$.

So in short, what's immoral about the law? The fact that instead of ensuring free trade (I have the product, you have the money, let's meet in the middle), it enforces super-corporations, able to force their products on you at the prices they want, and turn you into a criminal if you don't.

Stay cool.

[plop]

if a game costs 75 euro your gone think 5x before buying, if it would be 10 euro's your gone buy it without thinking.
and this can even make you buy multiple games every week.
simple example i reguarly have in record shops.
when i go 2 "free records shop" i buy 1 cd for 25.
now there is here also a shop called "plato", they sell the same cd's for less then 50%, i mostly walk out with a stack of cd's and so spending more money.

there has been a good investigation about music and p2p, the result a mere loss of 1%.
record company's somehow think that every track being downloaded is missed profit, this is false as most ppl who download the track would never buy the track in the shop.
but on the other side, ppl reguarly find new bands they like buy downloading sometracks, and after that they run 2 the shop 2 buy the cd.
this increases profit.

now a really simple M$ example: why is windows xp here about 250 euro's while in china it's only 30 euro?????

and the best, most stable/secure os is FREE.
net-/open-/freeBSD
yes it's a bit harder 2 use, instead of double clicking an icon 2 install a app you need 2 type "make install".

now a small personal thing, i never buy movies in the shops.
the reason is simple, i'm not gone spend so much money 2 view it 1x.
so they don't mis any profit here.
but if the movie would cost 5-10 euro's i would buy it (so would many many many more ppl).
lowering the prices increases sells, the proof for this can be found in belgium.
if you lower taxes ppl have more money left and whill buy more things.

2 close this post, click here

plop

[Cyberia]

Yes, totaly agree with you Plop.

If they have a lower price i would buy more.
But now some application are to expensive to buy.
Look at MS-Office. It's more expensive than a whole standard PC. If it has a "normal" price, more people would buy it.

[NotRabidWombat]

"if i buy a candy bar i can share it if i want,if i buy a car i can share it if i want,why is software any diferant?"

Well, let's treat sharing music like you would a candy bar. You could only give pieces of the music file to others. Once you listened to a piece it's gone, until it comes out your the cdrom as fecile matter ;-)

Now let's treat the music like a car. Only one instance of the music may exist at any point in time. So if someone downloads the music from you, you lose it. Also, whenever you want to listen to the music, you must pay money to give it gas to run ;-)

An interesting scenario would be how would manufacturers react if replicator technology (create duplicate copies of matter) were ever created. I'm sure they would be upset if someone started duplicating $100,000 cars for little to no money.

"Have you ever wonder why library exist?"

This is a wonderful observation that brings me to my next point. The authors choose to submit their work to the public domain of a library. You cannot steal what is freely given away ;-) However, not all the authors of music, software, etc want to give their creations away. We should all learn to respect their rights rather than calling them greedy. They are not any more or less evil than authors who submit their work to public domain.

"almost nobody likes that law so why is it still there ?"

I am positive you and everyone else likes this law. Intellectual property rights can even be seen in the open source code here! I know many scriptors are infuriated when their code is used and someone removed/replaced the author's name. It's why many people are compiling their lua code.
Since music and source code are both considered intellectual property, you are inadvertently suggesting that compiling to protect your intellectual property should be illegal. That way you can get your free music, and anyone may alter an author's code ;-)

I do not understand this claim that the companies are not losing any money. You are STILL breaking the law. In fact, you're helping them by offering the opportunity for a lawsuit. In other words, they can make thousands for a cd that cost $25.

My proposal is STOP stealing other people's property. It is wrong. What you can do instead is become an advocate of open source and public domain material. Most of my favorite bands offer their music for free. Most of my favorite software is open source. I personally support the copyleft policy for all my source code and feel most people in this forum do the same.

P.S. - Let's try to avoid the implications of supply and demand in this topic. I doubt any of us have enough econimic background to really grasp how the system is working.

-NotRabidWombat

[NotRabidWombat]

"Look at MS-Office. It's more expensive than a whole standard PC. If it has a "normal" price, more people would buy it."

Use open office.

-NotRabidWombat

[NotRabidWombat]

"They can make you need their products on the one side"

Are you suggesting that you can not live without music? or a movie?

-NotRabidWombat

[kbeh273300]

all i know know is all those guys or girls that make the software or music or games and so on all drive new cars live in new houses and can aford 10 times over to send there kids to the best schools i on the other hand cannot and drive an old car and live in an old house just becouse i cant carry a tone or make software.but its ok i wont cry if i get cought but i will fight for my rights and against those fat cats in there limo's crying that they are looseing money, as far as i can tell they are still as rich as before.

[NotRabidWombat]

So if someone makes more money than you, you should be allowed to take from them? What about the people who make less than you? Should they be allowed to take from you? Taking music, software, etc will not really change the actual problem you are discussing. However, this will only result in more hostility.

You talk about fighting for your rights at the expense of other rights. Who deserve more rights. Well we all deserve equal rights and equal opportunity.

A better approach would be change the system that imposes unequal opportunity, such as supporting public (free) college level education. Or fight against degree discrimination in the work place.

[[NL]Pur]

pur (me):
almost nobody likes that law so why is it still there ?

rabid:
I am positive you and everyone else likes this law. Intellectual property rights can even be seen in the open source code here! .

I'm against how it is arranged now, in holland for example there is a maximum price for books, they should do that with cd's,dvd's and software to.
Office 2003 pro cost around 300 euro do you thing that is normal ?  

rabid:
I know many scriptors are infuriated when their code is used and someone removed/replaced the author's name. It's why many people are compiling their lua code.

i am against compiling lua code! I'm not able to understand why someone is doing that and posting it here on the board. Since this is a knowladge sharing place, and not look what i got place.

rabid:
Since music and source code are both considered intellectual property, you are inadvertently suggesting that compiling to protect your intellectual property should be illegal. That way you can get your free music, and anyone may alter an author's code ;-)

I compile my code to run it :)

Btw did you know Microsoft opent his first project on sourceforge :)

[kbeh273300]

what i mean by fighting for my rights is that if we as a people feel the law is unjust we have the right to fight it and build suport for our ideas,witch is what i intend to do but people have been copying caset tapes for years i never saw a single person arested for it nor did i see anyone lose any money over it.if i thought for one min that someone was loseing money over it i would agree it was wrong but i would never be able to buy the software that i have goten therefore no money was lost by anyone,therefore no crime has been comited.now it i was on the street selling said software or music then that would be diferent.but as anyone can tell that ever looked at my file list they have seen that i do not share software.but music i can here on the raidio for frre moves i can watch on public tv for free so i dont see the crime.however i have seen more then anything else lots of child porn witch is a worse crime,go unpunished if they want to do some real good in the world they go after those people for they are hardend criminals.

[NotRabidWombat]

"I'm against how it is arranged now, in holland for example there is a maximum price for books, they should do that with cd's,dvd's and software to.
Office 2003 pro cost around 300 euro do you thing that is normal ?"

I believe in the more laizez faire modal. If a price is too outragious, another company will steal the market. Again, use OpenOffice. It's FREE.

"i am against compiling lua code! I'm not able to understand why someone is doing that and posting it here on the board. Since this is a knowladge sharing place, and not look what i got place."

You're missing the point. I also advocate open source. But I can not ignore others people's RIGHT to protect what is technically theirs even if I do not believe in doing so.

"Btw did you know Microsoft opent his first project on sourceforge :)"

Huh? I'm pretty sure you don't mean Windows began on Sourceforge. Do you mean Microsoft recently released a project on sourceforge? If so, that's great!

kbeh,
No matter how you word it, taking something that does not belong to you is called stealing. Reselling has nothing to do with the act of stealing. Whether the person is rich or poor, it is wrong.
Using other crimes to justify your crime is a common misdirection of guilt.

-NotRabidWombat

[kbeh273300]

i say if it makes you and others feel better to arest me or sue me then more power to ya