FBI started to work :(

[kbeh273300]

lets face it the world is a crule place this isnt about stealing its about money.one you make a little money you want it all its more powerfull then any drug,i justify my action by my god not by some man made papper that they hold to higher regaurd then a human being.thats the last i will say on this subject.some people jay walk it is also a crime are they ever arested? no and there are tons of crimes on the books that are not enforced they only enfoce the ones that make them the most money.witch proves that it isnt about right and wrong its about money end of story.

[NotRabidWombat]

I completely agree with you. The rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. We live in a society where money & power are intertwined with knowledge. People with more power may control the flow of knowledge, thus controlling their own power.

That said, stealing only makes matters worse. If you want to make a difference, change the system.

Again, making remarks about other crimes does not make stealing music any less illegal or immoral.

Mentioning God is even more confusing (Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not steal and Thou shalt not convent thy neighbors goods). Thank God I'm an atheist. ;-)

If the crime you are committing makes money for the company enforcing the law, why commit the crime? Won't you just fuel the fire?

-NotRabidWombat

[VidFamne]

You are repeatedly saying stealing. It's not going to be more true, how many times you say it.
We are sharing music, and many goverment in EU are struggling with the question, if it is illigal. So its not that obvious, what it is.
Laws can be wrong. History tells us that.

[NotRabidWombat]

Ok. Give me the keys to your house. I'd like to *share* them. ;-)

If everyone only *shared* the music, would the coorperation that signed the band make money? No. If the coorperation doesn't make money, will the band make money? Probably not (they will probably be dropped).

Besides we're not just talking about music. We are talking about Software, Books, Images, etc. Lots 'o copyrighted material. How would you define *taking* any of the above away from the owner without permission?

Intellectual property rights are not wrong because you say "Laws can be wrong".

"many goverment in EU are struggling with the question"
Many governments have recently struggled with women's rights (some still struggle). Does that mean we should rethink the laws that protect their rights?Remember the laws that protect the artists protect you too.

-NotRabidWombat

[[NL]Pur]

Ok. Give me the keys to your house. I'd like to *share* them. ;-)

Hey you can make a copy of my house any time.

[VidFamne]

Ok. Give me the keys to your house. I'd like to *share* them. ;-)

Hehe, you're welcome. :-)
I love this thread, so many emotions, for and against sharing.
Another thing about copyrighted material, it was to protect the artist from other artists to make money of their material. Not to prevent from sharing over the net.
Its a hole new thing.
And as I say before its not that obvious if its violate the copyright.

[NotRabidWombat]

"Hey you can make a copy of my house any time."

You missed the point. By sharing them, I implied that all your family, neighbors, and enemies would have them as well. I, of course, would not be breaking the law for sharing them even if they did break in and take everything you own ;-)

"Another thing about copyrighted material, it was to protect the artist from other artists to make money of their material."

And how does it do this? By declaring the artist owns what they make. It's the same way with software. Still doesn't make it right to take it.

Is it more obvious if you use a pirated copy of Windows XP?

"I love this thread, so many emotions, for and against sharing."

Me too. But I feel like I'm preaching at the wrong church ;-)

-NotRabidWombat

[kbeh273300]

its not stealing if the person that bought it gives it to me willingly i think you better learn law before you start talking about it as if you know it.even if i rob your house its not a crime untill i report it.

[NotRabidWombat]

"its not stealing if the person that bought it gives it to me willingly"

People buying a cd do not purchase the rights to redistribution. You are equating material items that can not be duplicated to ideas.

"learn law before you start talking..."
You are in no position to make these accusations. The law already exists. I am simply giving moral and logical reasons to support it.

"even if i rob your house its not a crime untill i report it."
That doesn't make sense. Why would you report a crime you committed?

This is really going in circles. So I'm done. Be immoral if you like. I won't :-P

-NotRabidWombat

[Cyberia]

Why they haven't make a fund for the artist.
Make the price of the broadband connection a little bit higher (5 or 10$). Let the ISP put the extra 5 or 10$ in the fund every month. We are happy, we can download what we want   . Artists are happy, they get their money from the fund  

[AlwaysConnected]

one thing to say

Install protowall :)
and download also the update manager
every 12 hours an update

[[NL]Pur]

"its not stealing if the person that bought it gives it to me willingly"

People buying a cd do not purchase the rights to redistribution. You are equating material items that can not be duplicated to ideas.

"learn law before you start talking..."
You are in no position to make these accusations. The law already exists. I am simply giving moral and logical reasons to support it.

"even if i rob your house its not a crime untill i report it."
That doesn't make sense. Why would you report a crime you committed?

This is really going in circles. So I'm done. Be immoral if you like. I won't :-P

-NotRabidWombat

 

are you saying that if you don't obey the law your immoral ?

[DEEP-GOA]

Originally posted by AlwaysConnected
one thing to say

Install protowall :)
and download also the update manager
every 12 hours an update

agree

[pHaTTy]

hmm for a change i agree with Rabid, problem with you ppl that are saying, its not wrong to redistribute, read the notice supplied with games and software, the agreement license, you are not only resitrubuting without the authorisation, you are lying also, if you dont agree with the license, then dont buy the software, and do NOT download it unless its freeware, i admit i ocasianally download a few small tools, while im waiting to go buy it, once ya biuy it yea it make cost alot, but at least ya know ya have earned it......

if you are not going to buy it, dont take it without authorisation from the owner, it is stealing, you are getting it from someone else other then the owner, stealing from the author.....

i think i might go steal a car, start a factory, and start producing replica's, without the authorisation from the designers....


you may own the software, but, you own it under conditions, terms, if u dont obey, you are breaking the law, its an agreement........its like sex, if she dont want it, ya not getting it, she might be ur girl, but if you just take it, ya breaking the law, its called rape....

you are taking away her rights, software...you own it, but they still own the rights....you do not buy the rights....if you want to go resitribute then go pay the software company, 1-2million, or more and buy the rights, then go distribute it for free.........

[MrZ]

:)))

ok i regret,, were is the addy for them ... i'm gonna send them back all files that ive dwl'd

[NotRabidWombat]

"Let the ISP put the extra 5 or 10$ in the fund every month. We are happy, we can download what we want"

Ironically they tried the same sort of thing with the airports. There was a tax of $3 for every ticket (pre 9/11) that was *guranteed* to go to security to increase performance and safety. As of now, the tax is STILL in place and security has not seen a dime.
Another complexity, which artist's get the money? How about software companies? How would distribute the tax to them too?

"are you saying that if you don't obey the law your immoral ?"
No, I never said breaking a law implied you are immoral. Nor have I ever said ALL laws are moral. However, I do believe I have stated a lot of proof to prove the immoral nature of the situation. I guess maybe you should reread?

-NotRabidWombat

[[NL]Pur]

There is a tax on blank cd's also, that goes to the music companies.

I don't think the law as it is now, protects the artist or the software developers. Only the big companies behind it, who makes big bucks out of selling the stuff.

There various of artist that just have there own music on there site for listening.

And rabid you are only saying how it is now, your not discussion anything, or do you agree with how it's arranged at this time?



"Btw did you know Microsoft opent his first project on sourceforge :)"

Huh? I'm pretty sure you don't mean Windows began on Sourceforge. Do you mean Microsoft recently released a project on sourceforge? If so, that's great!

https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=365546

[pHaTTy]

Originally posted by [NL]Pur
There is a tax on blank cd's also, that goes to the music companies.

nah that goes to government fundings......see bcoz, they dont charge for a seperate license like tv etc, they get there tax by stuff we buy, hardware, software, etc

[[G-T-E]Gate?]

This is just a quick translation for the non swedish speaking. Little information thats all. They Try and thats all, so "Dont Worry Be Happy Now"
Swedish site > Metro Local Paper

Translation:
"Raid Against Program Piracy"
Swedish Police in conjunction with the FBI Raids 3 Places In Stockholm.
The most recent largest International raid against piracy includes even Sweden in a corner. After granted search warrents o?n 3 addresses in the country, one person is now suspected for breaking the law on warrenty.
Police in Sweden raided on Thursday, 2004/04/22, two places in the Stockholm area and another located in the country according to the Swedish Criminal Inspector for the Internet, Stefan Kronqvist.
One person was released after questioning. Confiscated items have not been completely analisesed, Stefan Kronqvist could not comment further on the grade of the crime.
- But the Swedish part seems very much limited. Behind Operation Fastlink is the Justice Dept of the U.S.A. , FBI and police in Belgium, Sweden, Dammark, Isriel, Holland, Span, Northern Ireland, Singapore, Germany and Hungry plus 27 States in the U.S.A.
Working together in over 120 cases,  more than 200 computers, where 30 of them were used as servers by Priates to share copied films, music, games and program software via the internet. Close to 100 persons are now identified. Over 65,000 files were found in one server in the U.S.A. Other so called Elit Places offered copies of programs that have not been released yet on the market.
"WAREZ"-Groups
Raids were aimed at unknown so called warez-groups that went by the manes of FairLight, Kalisto, Echelon, Class Project X.
"Warex" is the network for pirate copied material. According to the Busisness Software Alliance (BSA) that orginises the fight against software priacy, they have assisted in conficating nearly 400 million swedish kronor of pirate copied programs.
-"I have worked with rhe BSA since 1992 and have not seen such a larger raid before", says Agne Lindberg, the legal Rep. for the BSA in Sweden
Warez Gropus usually shares out priate copies Free, even if there has come more Internet sites that take payment for the pirate copies.
Lars Pedersen/TT Stockhom Metro

[dvxjunkie]

Those of us old enough to remember........
 The record companies cried the sky is falling in 1970's when the cassete tape deck became integrated into record players. the said "you cant do that to us the kids will tape albums and our sales will suffer" well Im pretty sure they made plenty of money. Then in the 1980's there was the VCR tape deck with standered RCA jacks for getting video from TV. and they said  " now nobody will go to the movies anymore."  Well guess what? people still pay to go to the movies.  
  I myself Have over 1000 dollars worth of cd's that I could have just downloaded but I still buy them.
 Some of these I discovered online and wanted my own copy. I dont believe that filesharing is costing the record companies any money because those who download and also dont buy music, are non buyers abd wouldnt have bought it anyway in the absense of  internet access.

[plop]

problem is the record company's can only do math.
about 15 tracks = 1 cd.
1cd = 25 euro's
so 15.000 downloaded tracks = 25.000 euro's.

they think money nothing else.

plop

[bliskner]

I don't know if this has been said already but in my opinion file sharing is goos for the community and the music manufacturers. I personally don't listen to much music i'm not particularly in to it. But when i do buy a cd it is normally because i have downloaded the album - listened to it and then want my own copy. Hence actually increasing my purchasing in the realm of music. I will admit that the amount i spend on games has gone down since i started but only because now i can actually play a game before i fork out the cash to buy it. I must have 20-30 games on my shelves at home that i bought on the quality of the demo alone and the games turned out to be as boring as hell - or unplayable. Demo's nowadays seem to be either a movie of the game based on some bloke playing - and most normally showing the best parts of the game or a severly restricted demo of 1 or 2 levels out of 20 that seem fun - untill you find out each level is a carbon copy of the others. So perhaps the software companies are losing out on my business - but only because i buy crap games less often.

I mean taking the example of the candy bar - would you buy a candy bar on the strength of what the wrapper looked like alone???

Or the car ... would you buy a car merely based on the adverts you see on the TV, and when you test drive it you are allowed 20 mins on a straight flat piece of road and half the features are disabled (say for example the cd - player or the power steering) ??? I know i would not so why do most software companies expect us to fork over loads of cash for something we haven't even tested. It is just stupid to think we should do that.

Anyway thats my ranting over..........

(oh and terms of why are we not allowed to share stuff because of copyright - well actually the concept of ownership and property is the entire foundation of our society - without it civilization would collapse - just think about it - what would happen if we did with hard property what we did with copyrighted material?? would your house be safe? what about it - just think ppl)